In an interview Tuesday with Radio al Balad, EU Ambassador Pierre-Christophe Chatzisavas shed light on the strengthened relationship between the European Union and Jordan. The interview, conducted by Daoud Kuttab, delved into the details of a recently signed €3 billion comprehensive strategic partnership, highlighting its expected impact on Jordan's economic development and regional stability.

Ambassador Chatzisavas detailed the significant progress in EU-Jordan relations following King Abdullah II's visit to Brussels, where he engaged with top EU officials. “Our conversation takes place in the wake of His Majesty’s visit to Brussels, where he had very important conversations with EU leaders… where he managed to make an extra mile in our bilateral relations between the EU and Jordan,” the ambassador stated, emphasizing the King's role in strengthening the partnership.

The core of the partnership revolves around a €3 billion investment package. The ambassador explained, “The EU and Jordan have extremely close relations based on a common world vision and a shared commitment to international law and the UN Charter...and our Association Agreement… is the framework.” The new Strategic and Comprehensive Partnership, he emphasized, goes beyond mere economic cooperation. It encompasses political dialogue, security and defense cooperation, trade and investment, human development and the sustained EU response to the refugee crises in the Middle East and their impact on Jordan.

The crucial role of Jordan and the Hashemite custodianship of Jerusalem in the broader context of the Palestine issue also featured prominently. The ambassador emphasized the EU's strong stance against any infringement on the status quo in Jerusalem, stating, “any infringement on the status quo is something that we cannot accept. It involves access… to the holy sites, including the Al-Aqsa compound… For us, the custodianship and the special role played by the Hashemites in Jerusalem is critical. It's an integral part of the status quo, and we will continue to fight for the preservation of these very delicate and critical sites for all religions.” This underscores the EU's recognition of Jordan's pivotal role in maintaining stability and peace in the region, and specifically Jerusalem’s importance. The EU’s support, therefore, extends to preserving the historic role of the Hashemite Kingdom in safeguarding the holy sites and promoting regional peace.

A major focus is on bolstering Jordan’s economic growth. While acknowledging the existing strong trade ties (“the EU is the second trade partner of Jordan”), the ambassador identified an imbalance and the trade balance: "Jordan will import more than six billion euros in terms from the EU… but the level of export from Jordan to the EU is not yet satisfactory." The agreement aims to address this by supporting Jordanian businesses in accessing the vast European market and attracting European investment. The ambassador highlighted the need for Jordanian businesses to adapt to the EU's competitive market and standards, noting the significant size of the EU's consumer base as a potential strength to be harnessed.

The ambassador stressed the importance of education and human development in the partnership. He noted that " the EU has been a partner of Jordan when it comes to quality education, access to primary and secondary education as well as universities, making full use of the ERASMUS program and other scholarships, as well as the promotion of vocational training.” This commitment extends to supporting vulnerable populations, including Syrian refugees.

The interview also touched upon Jordan's unique tourism potential and its skilled workforce, which could help address the EU's projected labor shortage. The ambassador declared, "The biggest asset of Jordan is not its natural wealth, it’s its brains, its youth. It is the level of education that is remarkable...and this is why Jordan is exporting so many skilled laborers to the Gulf but also to the EU."

Perhaps most significant was the discussion about the EU’s unwavering support for Jordan’s modernization plan. Ambassador Chatzisavas asserted, “We are fully behind this modernization plan across the board...we are also economically behind the modernization plan across its various fronts.”

In conclusion, the interview revealed a deeply strengthened partnership between the EU and Jordan, extending beyond mere economic cooperation to include political collaboration, human development, and a joint commitment to regional stability and peace. The EU's unwavering support for Jordan’s modernization efforts, and its strong stance regarding Jerusalem’s status quo and the two State solution, highlight the strategic importance of Jordan to European policy and to the overall stability of the Middle East.

Below are the full transcripts of the interview:

Full transcripts of Radio al Balad’s interview with EU Ambassador Pierre-Christophe Chatzisavas

Interview conducted by Daoud Kuttab.

Radio al Balad: We are very happy to have the ambassador of the European Union Pierre-Christophe Chatzisavas …we know that you are of Cypriot origin and now you're a French citizen can you give us a brief on the latest Jordanian EU relations especially after the last meeting that you had in Brussels with his majesty the

King?

EU Ambassador:  of course. Just to set the record straight, I'm a dual citizen and I’m a refugee from the occupied part of Cyprus. So, we understand refugee issues, this is how I can connect easily with the issues that you have been fighting for so many years.  So, it's my honor to be with you. I’m very happy to give you an update about EU Jordan relations. Our conversation takes place in the wake of his Majesty's visit to Brussels where he had very important conversations and engagement with EU Leaders, with the President of the European Council, with the President of the European commission, and with the President of the European Parliament where he gave them his views, his vision about regional developments especially the question of Palestine, but also Syria and Lebanon. He also managed to make an extra mile in the bilateral relations between the EU and Jordan, so I would be very happy to develop on those issues.

Radio al Balad: We need to know the objectives of the signed comprehensive strategic partnership between the European Union and Jordan, which was reported to be three billion Euros in total. Can you give us a bit more details of how that works and its benefits to the people of Jordan?

EU Ambassador:  Absolutely. The EU and Jordan have extremely close relations based on a common world vision based on principles, based on our shared commitment to international law, to the human rights principles, and we have a very strong contract, which is the legal basis for those bilateral relations, which we call an Association Agreement. Of all our neighbors, Jordan is really at the top of our list of closest allies, I would say, and this Association Agreement which was sealed more than 20 years ago, is the framework. It is a treaty that is binding also to all EU member states. What we noticed in our relations with Jordan is that very frequently, in fact, every two to three years, we feel the need to elevate our partnership. We feel the need to advance to take an extra step, and this is exactly what happened over the last couple of months, where we revisited our priorities, we reset several objectives, and all those objectives are now enshrined in this strategic and comprehensive partnership. If you look at this document, which is a very short document, it includes five chapters; first of all, on political matters and political dialogue, we want to intensify the frequency of our engagement. We also want to acknowledge the fact that King Abdullah is interacting with all our leaders and we wanted to commit to meeting at the leader’s level more frequently than in the past.

We wanted also to express a standing invitation to the foreign minister Safadi to engage with all foreign ministers in the EU, and we wanted at a lower level of senior officials and at the level of bureaucrats to have a framework for intensified dialogue on a number of issues. Not just the regional issues, but also bilateral issues such as security and defense. That's the second chapter of the partnership, and we are committed to advancing our military cooperation, also our cooperation in the area of counterterrorism.

I will be happy to elaborate on those issues. Then the third and very important chapter in our relations is investment and trade, and on this one we committed indeed the support package that is very significant 3 billion euros. I will unpack it because I need to explain how it works and how we can make full use of this package.

Then the fourth chapter is about human development and you know that the EU has been a partner of Jordan when it comes to quality education, primary, secondary education and universities through our program Erasmus, which is a success story in Jordan but also through scholarship schemes including for vulnerable Jordanians and Syrian refugees in Jordan, giving them access to top class Jordanian universities such as the University of Jordan or the Hashemite university, or many other universities across the country including Yarmouk University in Irbid. And also, we have a focus on Vocational training, but also health, so all social sectors. An area where Jordan is leading in the Arab region is the issue of disability. We have been a standing partner of the Ministry of Social Affairs, trying to work on the deinstitutionalization of people with disability, so we will continue this important work.

The fifth and last chapter is migration and the response to the refugee crisis, where we wanted to signal to our Jordanian friends that we will sustain our support to the Syria refugee crisis and also to the protracted Palestinian refugee crisis through UNRWA.

Radio Al Balad: Our readers are interested especially in the economic aspect. Jordanian businesses have not succeeded in taking advantage of the opportunities from previous ones, about sources of goods and so on can you explain to our listeners about the economic benefits that this agreement will have, and will they feel it in their pocket or is it more theoretical?  How does that agreement affect the average person?  Citizens have concerns about the price of living and the level of unemployment.

EU Ambassador:  If you look at the facts and data, then you realize that trade relations between the EU and Jordan are solid. In fact, the EU is the second or third trade partner of Jordan, depending on the year. So, we come second after Saudi Arabia and we, depending on the year, are at the same level as China when it comes to trade exchanges. The problem in the EU-Jordan trade relations is that it's a relation that is unbalanced in the sense that Jordan will import more than six billion euros from the EU at all levels, it's agriculture products from Romania, machine and equipment from Germany, services from others. But the level of export from Jordan to the EU is not yet satisfactory. It has to do with the fact that the market in the EU brings together 450 million customers. It's very competitive. We have a very solid industrial base; our products are cheap to European consumers then you have standards, then you need to have a business intelligence to do business with the EU, so it's true that the trade volumes from Jordan to the EU is not yet satisfactory, we have tried to work on this in the past. We have tried to relax some rules to make it easier for the Jordanian business to export to the EU, but there is much more work to do and it's in fact one of the commitment that we took during his Majesty's visit to Brussels as part of the Strategic partnership to revisit our trade relations and make sure that Jordan can use to the full the free trade agreement that it has with the EU because we have a free trade agreement as part of the association Agreement. The question is how to help the Jordanian industry and the value chain seize opportunities in the EU market to develop products that raise an interest on the side of the EU market, and how to bring investors from Europe that will allow also a better integration between the Jordanian industry and the EU market.

Radio AL Balad:  We have a tourism uh opportunities here that is very unique and we also have a surplus of skilled labor and I know that in Europe you have a deficit of like 7 million skilled labors that you need in the next 10 years or so is that something that can help improve the balance?

EU Ambassador: Absolutely, you know the biggest asset of Jordan is not its natural wealth, it's its brains, its youth. It is the level of education that is remarkable for the Middle East and for the southern Mediterranean at large, and this is why Jordan is performing so well when it comes to Health tourism, for example, or services. And this is why Jordan is exporting so many skilled laborers to the Gulf but also to the EU. We should not ignore this part of the reality,y which is important for Jordan, because it brings remittances and it integrates its services to markets abroad.

Radio al Balad: We have a modernization plan that his majesty initiated, and there's some worry now because of the results of the last elections and the success of the Islamists that the modernization plan is going to slow down. Are you engaging with the government about how to help mitigate some of the problems we had in the first phase of the modernization plan?

EU Ambassador:  We are fully behind this modernization plan across the board, so we are behind the political modernization and we gave a helping hand last year during the elections through electoral assistance. We also deployed a very significant electoral observation mission with observers spread out throughout the country to observe and accompany this important process that was transparent and most professional. We are on the side of Jordan when it comes to its economic modernization across its various fronts, from health to access to Universal Health Coverage to the economy. I think that it's fair to say that this modernization has started under unfortunate circumstances and that there is an obvious damage to the Jordanian economy as a result of the war in Gaza, as a result of the insecurity in the Red Sea, and it means also that we need to redouble our efforts.

I know that there will be a review of the economic modernization process, which we are looking forward to, and we will see how we can adapt our support through grants or investment grants. Lastly, you know it's also extremely difficult and courageous on the side of Jordan to advance the third modernization – namely the modernization of the public administration, and here we are also trying to give a helping hand when it's needed and when it's requested to ensure a transparent and more efficient Administration. We brought the OECD on board and we are working very closely with the line Ministries.

Radio al Balad: On the second point of all the Association Agreements, the EU references human rights. Civil society and human rights organizations are concerned that we might not be moving in the right direction, and add to that the fact that USAID and even some other countries are moving away from supporting civil society and human rights issues. How does EU fit in this? Will you be able to help support civil society in the coming years?

EU Ambassador: Firstly, I mean one must be happy if he or she understands what's going on on the other side of the pond. And if he's able to read and predict what's going to happen when it comes to the US assistance. We are confident that the damage will be limited in Jordan. But we see that maybe some sectors, including civil society, may be damaged by the lack of predictability in support. So, what we want to do as the EU is this: we will not compensate for the loss of US external assistance across the world. It is not what we are for. There are consequences that the US needs to uphold for its policies. What we want to do is make sure that our partners are able to cope and this is where we see the role of the EU. As far as the EU is concerned, we will sustain our support and our external assistance. It's part of our DNA, so we will continue to support mega projects such as the water conveyor in Jordan, but across the world we have engaged also very ambitious plans and infrastructure work under our Global gateways in initiatives. What we want to do also is to continue to support civil society, and in a country like Jordan, what we will do is concretely we will ring fence resources and make sure that moving forward the Civil Society gets the support that it used to receive from the EU. We will ring fence this support and you can count on us to continue to support civil society across the board. Human rights organizations on one hand, and local CSOs on the other, for the support that they give to the empowerment of ordinary Jordanian citizens.

Radio al Balad: The EU made a very strong position against Trump's Gaza plan and EU ambassadors in Jerusalem stood outside Al Aqsa Mosque before Ramadan to ensure that there will not be any change in the status quo. Can you tell us more about the EU's general policy on the Palestine issue, especially Gaza and Jerusalem?

Eu Ambassador: When it comes to Jerusalem, because you were talking about one of the latest statements that was issued by colleagues in Jerusalem, you saw the position. You know that any infringement on the status quo is something that we cannot accept. It has to do with access, for example, to the holy sites and Al-Aqsa, for example. It has also to do with the Christian premises and the tendency of Israeli local authorities to tax or revisit agreements or practices that was exempting Christian sites, including Armenian sites, from taxes. For us, the Custodianship and the special role played by the Hashemites in Jerusalem is critical. It's an integral part of the status quo and we will continue to fight for the preservation of these very delicate and critical sites for all religions. When it comes to the Palestinian question more generally, indeed, a number of recent initiatives have tested the resolve and position. I have in mind, for example, the Riviera plan or some other plans made by the Israeli government or announced by members of its government about humanitarian bubbles, forcible transfer of Palestinian civilians from Gaza. You know the reason why the president of the European Council went to Cairo to attend the League of Arab states Summit is that we support the Gaza plan prepared by the Arab group. We do support the reconstruction plan. We see that it's the right basis for discussion. It is the one that is in line with international law and that will prevent any forcible transfer or displacement of Palestinian civilians.

Radio Al Balad: Now the EU has started lifting the sanctions on Syria, but a few days ago we had an increase in violence that had an ethnic background against some of the minorities who were hurt. Will the process of lifting continue or will you pause it? How are you looking as an EU to the Syrian crisis?

EU Ambassador:  We haven't lifted or revoked all sanctions; we have suspended them with the possibility of reimposing them if things go wrong. What we want to see is a political transition that is inclusive, that is respectful of international law and human rights law. Obviously, what happened over the weekend and this terrible massacre is a matter of grave concern, so I don't think that we can ignore this risk and I think that there will be increased pressure on Damascus to deliver on all its commitments, including the commitments related to the transition and to the inclusivity. With the suspension of EU sanctions, especially on the banking sectors, the Syrian Central Bank, but also the energy and transport sectors, our aim is to bring some oxygen to the Syrian economy, these sanctions were imposed to prevent the Assad regime from continuing its policies and its violations. It's a sanctions regime that is not designed to prevent or hamper the political transition.  So, we will continue to revisit all sanctions to make sure that we bring some oxygen to the private sector, so that Syria can recover, including in areas of return of refugees. In fact, next Monday on the 17th we will host in Brussels an important ministerial meeting which will be attended by foreign minister Safadi, by Minister Touqan and many other ministers from the region to discuss how to sustain the humanitarian response to the Syria crisis, including the refugee crisis including in Jordan, but also how we can initiate a recovery in Syria. And obviously this recovery will not be forged only by international actors, the private sector needs to be mobilized and this is where the suspension of sanctions needs to take effect. The problem with this is that the EU sanctions alone will not suffice. You know our sanctions regime was intertwined with other sanctions regimes and there needs to be coordination so that gradually we bring back oxygen to this society that has suffered so much from 15 years of civil war.

Radio al Balad:  There is some concern that there might be a new wave of immigrant Alawites and Christians because of this violence. Would Europe be open to new immigrants because the borders are completely shut?

EU Ambassador: We are not into the business of self-fulfilling prophecies and dramatic scenarios. We have condemned very vocally the violence that took place over the weekend, which has devastated and cost the lives of civilians. We will continue to put maximum pressure on the authorities in Damascus to make sure that there is accountability for all those crimes and that order is restored in Syria.

Radio al Balad:  Ambassador Pierre Christoff, you've been very helpful. You've been very supportive of civil society, thank you for coming to Community Media Network and appearing on our radio station and on our website. We wish you the best in your position, thank you.

EU Ambassador: I thank you. I thank you and the team as well.