6 questions for Ohio State football entering the second week of spring practice: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Ohio State heads into Week 2 of spring practice as it continues its early preparation for the 2025 season.

On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis discuss the most intriguing topics on their minds heading into the week pertaining to OSU’s defensive line, linebackers and tight ends.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:06.366)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Mays, that’s Tiffan Kreisling and that’s Andrew Gillis. Another week, another spring practice, Ohio State back in the Woody for their fourth spring practice. We are not in there. We’re not going to be in there for a while. We won’t be back in there until the student appreciation day practice on April 5th. But that doesn’t mean we won’t be in there talking to people. We just won’t be watching practice. We are scheduled this week. As you’re listening to this, we’re in the building talking with Ryan Day, defensive coordinator, Matt Patricia and

offensive coordinator Brian Hartline later this week will talk with Larry Johnson in the defensive line and then we’ll get Keenan Bailey in the tight ends and James Lord is in the linebackers later this week along with it’s pro day week. We’ll touch on that and we’ll be in there for that with all the players who I don’t know how many of them have seen all the signage up. I know for like Tylek was in there last Monday and he was he walked into the wood. He was like, whoa, all of this is up. Drave on Henderson and G Scott have been in the building.

Lathan Ransom got into the building late last week and I’m sure a lot of the more of the players will be at practice today and on Wednesday before pro day. But that’s not what we’re talking about today. Today is essentially in the vein of leaving no doubt, but it’s more about creating some doubt, having some intrigue, wondering, concluding, trying to figure out as we talk with the defensive line linebackers and tight ends this week.

We want to ask, I asked Stefan and Andrew to come up with a question for each of them that they just want to know this. This is what they want to know this week because we did a lot of previewing a couple of weeks ago and now we get a chance to actually validate some of those thoughts and concerns that we had. So Stefan, let’s start with the defensive line because they’re the first group that we’re going to talk to this week. What is the number one absolute thing you want to ask Larry Johnson about him in his position group this

Stefan Krajisnik (02:01.506)

I want to know a little more about CJ Hicks and I just want to like know the timeline. It’s we’ve spent the last however long, at least the whole year that I’ve been here and probably even longer than that. Thinking that CJ Hicks deserves to be kind of more of a defensive end. We saw CJ Hicks last year, voices, thoughts about wanting to be more of a defensive end. So what took so long?

And now that we’re here, what is the potential that map or not my Patricia Larry Johnson, but I guess my Patricia to season this because I think all three of us would agree that this is the right spot for CJ Hicks. And he’s a guy where if his potentials reach, he could have double digit sacks this year. And maybe some of that depends on how many games they play, but I don’t think it’s very unreasonable to say that this could be a guy who leads a team of sacks. So what was the timeline? I guess, when did they know

that this move was going to happen. Did it happen in October where they were like, Hey, CJ’s more of a defensive end. Let’s just get through this year and then spend the entire off season making this move. Did it happen when the off season arrived? When, when did Larry Johnson and Ryan Day, Matt Patricia all kind of decide it’s time to go that direction. It’s time to utilize CJ Hicks in that role. And now what do they think could happen now that they’ve finally done that?

Stephen Means (03:26.496)

I think this was a pre Patricia conversation. Actually, I know it was a pretty, I don’t know why I’m sad. I know it was a pre-partition conversation and something that had been in the works for most of bowl practice. And really even before that, they had been starting to transition CJ Hicks over a little bit. just, you can’t make that fully. And when you’re in the middle of the season and which room needs more depth right now, linebacker or defensive line, I think last year, arguably you would say the linebackers probably needed a fourth linebacker.

more than the defensive ends needed a fifth defensive end, especially when Jack and JT are playing 85 % of the snaps. Anyway, mine is in the same, my CJ Hicks question at least, have a million questions, I always have a million questions. My CJ Hicks question I’ll answer is less about timeline, though I do understand that, right? You’re trying to figure out when was that, did they know halfway through the season last year? Okay, CJ’s not gonna be a linebacker very long, and how much did Arvill play up?

a role in that and Payton Pierce and their growth in that and the way James or not it’s recruited that position in 2025 bringing three guys in. But for me, it’s. You know what the answer is, if you ask Matt Patricia, when you looked at Caleb Downs, what did you think? Oh boy, that’s what you thought when you look at CJ, when you looked at Sonny Styles, excuse me, and our memories. Oh boy, Davidson, Ignos and Jermaine Math. We know that those are going to be starters. But Matt Patricia has.

Schemed up a defense with a CJ Hicks before in fact that’s many of those New England Patriots defenses had someone who had skill sets that matched what CJ Hicks might have this year, so I almost Hey Larry, how’s the defensive end development going for CJ Hicks right the normal stuff but for Matt Patricia it’s What do you envision when you look at a guy who is six foot three?

235 pounds might get up to 240 by the time they start playing real football. What, when you look at CJ Hicks, what starts clicking in Matt Patricia’s head in terms of how he might use him and how is that maybe shaping the way Patricia might scheme this defense?

Andrew (05:39.951)

Yeah. And I think that, you know, this is obviously, you know, a good poll from Stefan. I think, you know, it’s not just is CJ Hicks a pass rusher. It’s what else can you do with him? You know, it’s you know, is he a situational pass rusher? Oh, well, hey, look, it’s second and 13. Here comes CJ Hicks. Wonder what he’s going to do. Right. It’s third and nine. Here comes CJ. OK, well, I wonder what’s about to happen. It’s like, OK.

We know CJ Hicks has bend, he has athleticism, he has burst, he has all of the traits you want out of a guy that can go get the quarterback. I forget which one of you guys said it on a previous pod, but it was like, you look at the snap and CJ Hicks has two steps on somebody because he’s just that quick off the ball. What else can CJ Hicks do? Because if he’s just gonna be a situational pass rusher that you get to use, you know,

two, three snaps a drive maybe, then I’m curious. yeah, how do you view CJ Hicks? What has his development been like as a defensive lineman is a good question for Larry. But I’m also just curious, maybe this is more of a Patricia question, but I’m curious with Larry, like, do you think CJ Hicks can put on weight and play maybe more of an every down roll at end? Is this something that you think, can he set an edge?

Can he play more of just a specialized type of role? Because if he does that, then I think we’re talking about a really high ceiling here. Because right now we talk about him in a pass rushing role, but there’s so much more that goes into playing defensive end than that. And I’m curious, like, OK, great. He might be a lead at this one thing. What are his other traits like? Like how good is he at everything else? Because we haven’t seen it. I’m not saying he’s bad at it. We don’t know. This is a new thing for him. This is a new thing for us watching him.

What else can he do for you guys defensively other than just say, hey, look, you see that guy? We’re number 11 back in the backfield with the ball, the quarterback. Go get him. Outside of that, what else can he do? I want to know.

Stephen Means (07:50.26)

But what if he’s really good at that part?

Andrew (07:53.359)

Then then that’s great. Then that’s outstanding. And you’re using him in a lot of different ways in terms of getting after the quarterback. But I’m just curious, If you send him on the field, like, is he is he if you put him on the field or you run it almost like a 335 where you rush guys and CJ Hicks dropping back in coverage is not crazy. CJ Hicks playing on second and six when the other you’re playing a team like Wisconsin is that crazy?

when you know they might run the ball at him. I want to know the answer to those things. Because yeah, he might be great at pass rushing and let’s say that he’s the best on the team at pass rushing. Okay. What else does he have in his tool bag as a defensive end? I want to know that.

Stephen Means (08:39.529)

But what if he’s so good at pass rushing that it doesn’t matter that the other team knows that he’s only on the field to pass rush.

Andrew (08:48.227)

Well, and then guess that would kind of go into my second question of like what, okay, so he’s on the field for pass rushing. How good is he at defending the run? Cause if I know that I would just run right at it.

Stephen Means (08:58.324)

What if it’s third and seven and it’s a clear passing situation?

Andrew (09:04.065)

Well, you better chip him. You better put a tight end on that side of the field.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:06.158)

think he’s gonna be on the field for a lot of third and sevenths. Maybe all of them.

Stephen Means (09:11.86)

That’s what I think.

Yeah, I don’t. I’m with you. Yes, he has to learn everything else. And Larry Johnson has said such and will continue to say so. And that’s what makes him an every down. In fact, I think Larry Johnson used that he needs to be an every down defensive lineman. I agree with that. That does not mean that you don’t use him at all. The Rushman package exists for a reason. That package is not. it’s not called the stop the run package.

It’s called the rushman package. The job is to rush. You don’t run rush. You pass rush. So I think that is square one for CJ. And if by the end of the season, he turns into an every down defensive end, fine. Or you know what, Andrew? I’m with you. I’m open to the idea that they just turn this thing into a three, three, five, except it’s, it’s, it’s less of like a traditional three defensive linemen, three linebackers, five DBs. It’s three defensive linemen, two linebackers.

Andrew (10:02.979)

Right.

Stephen Means (10:13.182)

this guy insert name right now at CJ Hicks and then it’s five defensive backs. I’m open to all of this stuff being the case, but I do know that on day one, the answer to, he only does this one thing really, really well, well then use him to do that one thing really, really well. I didn’t say have him out there on first and 10 and, or if it’s third and goal from the one yard line, well maybe because he’s still got some linebacker.

training and so he’s what he could be one of the linebackers but still I’m not saying he needs to be out there for 65 snaps but

Can he be out there for 20?

And what if two of those 20 turn into a sack, even if they’re half sacks? And what if he has a half sack every game? Let’s just say this team plays 16 games.

And CJ Hicks has a half sack in every single game. That’s eight sacks. At bare minimum, if he has at least a half sack, that’s eight sacks that he had this year. Is that a successful transition year?

Stephen Means (11:24.818)

I think so.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:26.284)

I think anything over five, I would say he had a pretty good season.

Stephen Means (11:32.456)

Exactly. That’s all I’m saying.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:33.966)

Like he had two sacks last year

Stephen Means (11:39.39)

Yeah, on like, how many patch rushing snaps did he actually play last season? Because the first that came in the first game.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:44.386)

I think he played like. Yeah, yeah. And then he had a second is Northwestern, I think originally.

Stephen Means (11:52.446)

Yeah, when they just brought him off the edge and said, CJ, go get the football. He played.

Stephen Means (12:01.696)

He played 19 pass rushing snaps and he had two sacks. I’m just look man. JT to him below. had 12 and a half sacks this year and he played 356 pass rushing snaps. Jack Sawyer had nine sacks this year and he played 380 pass rushing snaps last year. Cody Simon.

had seven sacks and he played 87 pass rushing snaps last year. Now all of his were blitzes. Sonny Styles, I think had six sacks this past year. How many pass rushing snaps did he play? 78. James Laurinaitis said he was the best blitzer in the linebacker room last year. So all I’m saying is he had two sacks and 19 pass rushing snaps. What if he plays a hundred pass rushing snaps?

By that average, I don’t even know how to do that.

Stefan Krajisnik (12:59.918)

It’s sacks. It’s ten sacks. I got, I got the, we’ve been talking calculator too much recently, but I got the app out.

Stephen Means (13:03.456)

Yeah! Good callback. So 10 sacks on 100 pass rushing snaps? Or a little under one sack every 10 pass rushing snaps?

I’m with you, Andrew. He’s got to learn how to stop the run. So teams just don’t run at him all day. I agree with that. But in the meantime, you can just use him on snaps when a team literally would be a disadvantage for them to run the ball.

I like it.

Stephen Means (13:39.528)

Anybody else like it?

Stefan Krajisnik (13:42.99)

I like it, that’s why I want to ask about it.

Stephen Means (13:44.776)

Okay, I told you I’m not gonna be hyperbolic this year. I’m gonna be reasonable about everything. Two sacks in 19 past-brushing snaps. No, I’m gonna be reasonable. I’m just being reasonable and going off with the... Okay, first of all, first of all, first of all, Jeremiah Smith doesn’t count. Because there is no level of hyperbole that you can get to that doesn’t sound like it’s realistic.

Stefan Krajisnik (13:52.802)

call cap.

I call cab.

Andrew (14:00.084)

Thanks, Stefan!

Stephen Means (14:11.388)

I am with anybody who has not already proven I’ll change that then fine. Anybody who has not already proven that they are undoubtedly unequivocally awesome. I am just going to go off of what the data tells us in the data tells me according to PFF. He had 19 pass rushing snaps this past year and he turned it into two sacks. So okay, what happens if you give him 50?

past rushing slaps. What happens if you give him, essentially I’m asking a guy who already showed you he couldn’t do it, what if you gave him more opportunities to do it? What does that mean? It doesn’t mean he’s going to turn into Abdul Carter or Michael Parsons, but it does mean that there is an opportunity for him to be that. Whether he does it or not, we’re gonna find that out in the fall.

Stefan Krajisnik (15:04.298)

Oh, and we can move on quick because I know that’s not the point of this pod, but give me a number. How many password snaps do you think he ends up playing?

Stephen Means (15:14.954)

So here’s the edges last year in defensive ends. Jack Sawyer played 380. JT Tuy Mo played 356. Kenyatta Jackson played 186. Kayden Curry played 130. In terms of defensive ends, those are the only people who played more than 75. And then Mitchell Melton was right under that at 73. If he is a second team defensive end right now, and the second team defensive ends last year played 186, and.

130 but that’s across 16 games so

That is...

Kenyatta played 11.6 pass rushing snaps per game and Kaden played.

Stephen Means (16:00.611)

8.1 pass rushing snaps. So let’s just say CJ plays. 9 to 10 pass rushing snaps per game over and that’s over a 10 game. See a 12 game regular season. Let’s just say 120 120 pass rushing snaps. Is that reasonable?

Stefan Krajisnik (16:17.678)

I think so. Because I also think you don’t have. Like I don’t think Kenyatta and Kaden are going to play the workload that Jack and JT played. Like the third defensive end is going to have a bigger role in 2025 than he did in 2024.

Stephen Means (16:18.773)

Okay.

Stephen Means (16:26.207)

Right.

Stephen Means (16:31.69)

Right.

So, okay, CJ, you used 19 of them to get two last year. If you get 120 through 12 games, what do you do with them? I’m not gonna put a number on that because that’s where the hyperbole comes in. well, then he’s definitely gonna have 12, because you know, what he didn’t know. I’m just gonna say, if he plays 120 pass rushing snaps through 12 games, regular season, that is more than enough for us to see whether or not CJ Hicks

former five star recruit ever turned into some level of an elite college football player. I think that’s a fair assessment.

I’ll save hyperbole from when we talk about the wide receivers. Andrew, what’s your question for Larry Johnson? Matt Patricia when it comes to this defensive line.

Andrew (17:25.965)

We’ll have two different questions for them. I have one for each. Which one do you want?

Stephen Means (17:28.415)

This is pod three in a row,

Stefan Krajisnik (17:30.572)

You’ve really been bad at these games.

Andrew (17:32.055)

No, no, he said, what’s your question for Larry Johnson, Matt Patricia? And I went, well, I have a question for each of them.

Stephen Means (17:35.328)

Right, right. And I also said about the defensive line.

Andrew (17:39.405)

So question for Larry.

Stephen Means (17:41.908)

I mean if your question of Matt Patricia is about the defensive line, you can use it here.

Andrew (17:44.907)

My question for Matt Patricia is about the defensive line, yes.

Stephen Means (17:47.698)

Okay, then you can use it here. He’s terrible at this. Very simple. Nice, I give them...

Andrew (17:50.347)

Okay, well they’re two different. They’re two different questions. I got yelled at for asking two different questions and now I’m trying to say, well, which one do you want me to ask?

Stephen Means (18:00.532)

The question about the defensive line.

Andrew (18:03.799)

Okay.

Stephen Means (18:04.72)

You know, I always say this, Ryan Day always says this, he tries to make things real simple for his quarterbacks and make it real easy for them. You don’t want to overload them with information. Make it real simple. Here’s your read, here’s your read key. I feel like I’ve given you guys very simple instructions. Here’s your read, here’s your read key. And yet for whatever reason, one of my quarterbacks continues to look at a player who isn’t going to be open.

Andrew (18:13.423)

Yeah.

Andrew (18:21.933)

So let, okay, I disagree.

Stephen Means (18:33.012)

based off the way that this play is supposed to be run for this look. don’t know what I’m... It’s not like, listen, it’s... They always says this. It’s...

Andrew (18:37.111)

Yeah, the other the other podcast my bad left hand up that’s on me this one not on me. What are your questions for Larry and Matt and Matt Patricia?

Stephen Means (18:46.73)

Day always says it’s personnel scheme or his coaching. The question I’m asking, what’s your question for the defensive line, Andrew? That’s your question.

Andrew (18:50.211)

So.

Andrew (18:54.197)

My question, let me blend these two together now is specifically on the interior. Like, I want to know

Stephen Means (19:02.196)

man’s asking about the safety on the boundary side when we’re playing on the field side. I just don’t get it.

Andrew (19:07.247)

I want to know if they think their interior defensive line depth specifically at nose is good enough because Cade McDonald has drawn rave reviews from a lot of different people, right? Like Cade McDonald, and we saw it in 2024. However, what’s after him?

Anybody have a definite firm, they know what’s going on answer, Stephen, Stevan, Euler? Nope.

Stephen Means (19:37.876)

I mean, in a world where they spent the last two years, really last three or four years, having guys who could play both spots, it doesn’t seem like they have guys who can play both spots right now, which is why we don’t have a definitive answer.

Andrew (19:44.441)

Sure.

Andrew (19:49.141)

Right. And and one of the things like and one of the things that I think is kind of a subset for Patricia is like when he was in New England, like everybody was saying, we ran this type of defense in New England. we had this. And I don’t know if you knew this, but he had a planet in New England in the middle of that defense. And that guy’s name was Vince Wilfork. And he was able to eat up a lot of space. And that allowed them to be able to have.

a very defensive front because when you have a dude who weighs 794 pounds who can just launch people into the stands, he’s one of the best nose tackles ever play the game and that helps your defense on a lot when you have a guy who can to gap it like that. So if you’re going to have CJ Hicks in this like three down mold, you need something on the interior to help mix that up. Right. Like if CJ Hicks is going to play kind of this hybrid.

the ideal jack position that we talked about for so long that never really happened under Jim Knowles. If that’s going to happen, you need to be strong enough on the interior. And I think Edrick Houston and Caden McDonald are probably going to be one of the better nose tackle three-tech combinations in the sport of all the teams that run four down front-ish type of defense where you have two interior guys. I think they’re probably going to be one of the better ones, at least one of the more talented ones.

But what’s going on behind him? And how good do you feel about who’s in that mix? Because I’m looking at my roster right now. Eric Mensah, 6′3, 308. Is he the backup nose in his second year? I mean, I don’t think you’re putting Jason Moore there. And Jason Moore, I’ll never forget Jason Moore. mean, 6′5, 305 pounds. How could you forget him? It’s like, is he? Are you putting him in nose? I don’t think you’re putting him in nose. I don’t think that’s probably where you want him.

Stephen Means (21:36.448)

Why can’t you?

Andrew (21:41.743)

play at 6′6″. So it’s at 6′6″, I think he’s better at 3-tech, do you not? I think he’s got the athleticism to play 3-tech and I think you would rather him play 3-tech.

Stephen Means (21:42.868)

Why not?

Stephen Means (21:51.678)

I, again, I don’t think it matters. think.

Andrew (21:55.085)

That’s fair, I just, wanna know what you’ve got on that nose and on the interior. That’s kind of the gist of what I’m-

Stephen Means (22:00.992)

Right, and I think that’s what I’m saying. You’re making it about one position. They want guys who can do both. Which is why Jason Moore is six foot five, 305 pounds. Which is why Tylee Williams at what, like six two, six three, six four, somewhere in that range, and 330 plus pounds. Yes, it would be nice to have one true nose. And they do have that in K.D. McDonald. Ty Hamilton was the only true nose they had on the interior the last two years.

Mike Hall and Tylee Williams could play both. That’s what I, it’s less about getting bogged down in the actual position groups than it is about just having guys who can play football for you. Because it’s the same thing at wide receiver. Sure, are there physical differences in terms of how the average human being would describe a slot receiver, a Z receiver, and an X receiver in a given year? Sure.

Garrett Wilson, Jackson Smith, the jigsaw and Chris Olavi were all the same size and weight. Right. It’s it’s it’s so it’s. It’s a minute point to an extent, but mine plays on what yours is saying, and I want to hear how Larry Johnson talks about the defensive tackles. And if you ask him depth, because you got to do it in a way where you can’t lead him on to talk about a player, you got to just see who the coaches is, bring up on their

The fact that Carlos Loughlin, he’s bringing up Bo Jackson on his own is why we are talking about Bo Jackson the way we’re talking about Bo Jackson. Jason Moore, 65305. I think he could play inside if you were only had three down linemen in there. mean, there’s a snap in the Texas game where they had three down linemen and Kaden Curry was the guy on the interior, which is another thing I’ll bring up. What if Kaden Curry moves inside? He’s not the biggest dude in the world, but he’s quick. And that’s a problem for guards.

when you got to deal with a quick guy like that. Caden Curry is 6′3, 260. But what if that’s on your interior and he’s strong enough to hold up in there and then like you’ve got, you’re asking guards and centers to keep up with 6′3, 260? Probably not gonna happen. Moore, 6′5, 305. Tywhon Malone, 6′4, 301. Will Smith, 6′4, 288. But he looks, and you guys weren’t here, he looks to me what Ty Hamilton looked like in 2021.

Stephen Means (24:27.336)

and his second year in the program where he was starting to get some snaps as a guy who is a long-term project, but high floor, super, super high floor. He’s also the son of former all-American Will Smith, who unfortunately passed away about a decade ago almost. But those three guys need to step up.

or they’re going to end up looking for guys in the transfer portal. don’t think I don’t think they have to right now. Stefan look for guys in the transfer portal. But if these three guys don’t start, if, they get two of these three guys to start showing some promise this spring, I don’t think they need to go into transfer portal. But if they are over three with guys who Taiwan Malone’s in his third year here, Jason Moore’s in his third year here as a former top one of a crew, Will Smith entering his third year here. If they’re not popping, then they’re going to need to go into the transfer portal.

because they came down and education are very good. They are not as experienced as time. Leak Williams and Ty Hamilton where you cannot ask them to play north of 50 snaps a game and think things are going to be okay by the time you get to November.

Stefan Krajisnik (25:36.204)

Yeah, you kind of pencil in defensive tackle as a April portal need and you hope that by the time you actually get to April, you can kind of just erase it.

Stephen Means (25:48.736)

So I’ll go to my third question, because you guys took the first two, which happens when you go third.

Stephen Means (25:56.468)

Or Kenyatta and Kayden, ready to play more.

and still be productive. I think both of those guys.

If they’re your second stringers, you got a pretty darn good defensive end grouping, which has been the case for the last two years. But now they’re the frontline guys, which means they’re going from playing 15 to 20 snaps to 35 to 40 snaps. And what was their off season like in terms of being challenged to step up as one leaders in that room, but then also getting them physically ready to handle a low that they’re now in year four, they’ve never really had to do in their lives.

So that’s, it’s more about them than it is. Maybe I could have said, Hey, Edrick, how does it feel to be on the interior? But he’ll just be like, like, I’m getting ready to dominate. Hey, Kenyatta, mean, Hey, Kaden, how does it feel to finally get a chance to play more? Like I’m getting ready to have a bunch of stats. But with Kenyatta and Kaden, they’ve been backups for so long that are you ready to carry on what it takes to be a starter in a defense that has shown us the last couple of years?

They’ll leave you out there if you’re good enough to just be out there and your backups maybe aren’t at the same level as you.

Stefan Krajisnik (27:14.764)

Yeah, that’s always the biggest thing, right? When you’re making a transition, you know, someone who’s a backup, like we talked so much last year about the flash as Kenyatta showed it’s it’s so different and so much tougher to be impressive and 50 snaps and then have to be impressive for 30 snaps a game, right? Like it looks way different. You’ve to be effective in the fourth quarter after you’ve already played, you know, 25 plus snaps. So that that’s definitely the biggest thing.

for those two guys is can you step up in a bigger workload and are you ready for a bigger work?

Stephen Means (27:56.896)

My questions for those two, I don’t even know if I can get those answers in the spring, but I just want to know how about their thought process for two guys who maybe didn’t think they would have to wait this long to be starters. They definitely thought they were going to get that opportunity in 2024, but now they’re getting it in 2025. They just saw what it looks like to take over a playoff run because that’s what Jack and JT did. Now that’s going to be what they’re going to be required to do. Okay. That’s defensive line. Let’s take a break and then we’ll get into tight end and linebacker. Actually I’ll let these guys choose which one we go with when we come back from the break.

And we’re back in on Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisling and Andrew Gillis as we preview week two of four for Ohio State’s Spring Practice Slate. We’re talking with defensive linemen, tight ends and linebackers this week as well as both coordinators and Ryan Day. Get the text 614-350-3315. All that information is going to your phone first before we ever talk about it, do a video about it or write about it. Two week free trial, 399. After that, Stefan, I’ll let you pick where you want to go next, tight ends or linebackers?

Stefan Krajisnik (28:54.05)

Let’s stay linebackers, we’re talking defense already. My brain can only go so many directions at once.

Stephen Means (28:58.952)

Okay. Okay. Well, unless you’re, know, not sticking to your read keys, then I guess I can go wherever I do. Okay, go ahead and ask it. No, go ahead. I’m going to take, your Arville question.

Stefan Krajisnik (29:05.528)

I have seven questions for James Lauren Eidos.

Stefan Krajisnik (29:14.934)

I actually, I don’t have an RL. RL is going to be an all big 10 linebacker. I don’t know. I any questions there. The question I have a linebacker is I want to know, like, I want to know more about Peyton Pierce. Where’s, where’s his big step date. He kind of feels like an X factor in this room, right? Like we’ve talked so much about RL and he’s next up and he’s going to play alongside Sonny, but where’s Peyton Pierce in this conversation? Cause I think we’ve kind of caught ourselves even drift a little toward.

Stephen Means (29:18.688)

You

Stephen Means (29:27.647)

Mmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (29:43.214)

Riley Pettigon and talking about him and being excited about what he can do. And I think another big reason why a guy like Gabe Powers is in here is that you’ve got a guy like Peyton Pierce too, who also is developing in that room and could have a big role. where is he? What is he the number three linebacker? No questions asked. And could he play a big role in the same way that we saw Arvel play a pretty, pretty, pretty big role in 2024 and maybe even bigger. Like I listen, we, we, we hype up our bell as much as anyone, but like,

Stephen Means (30:05.333)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:14.286)

It’s fair to say that our bell. Is it going to maybe have it like? I’m trying to think of the best way to phrase this like we know Sonny’s the guy right and last year we knew like Cody and Sonny were the guys once it became pretty clear that Sonny was making that transition well. Is it going to be Sonny and our bell or is it going to be Sonny our bell but a pretty decent load of Peyton Pierce? Maybe more so than we even saw our bell last year like is the third linebacker going to have a bigger role?

Stephen Means (30:24.82)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:43.886)

2025 than he did in 2024. And I think that’s where kind of Peyton Pierce fits into this conversation. And he’s got to make that step because I think he’s gonna have a pretty big role in 2026. Maybe pencil and men as a starter in 2026. Like 2025 is a huge season for Peyton Pierce. Where does James feel like he’s developed? And is he ready for a bigger role?

Stephen Means (31:08.448)

looking at the snap counts of linebacker three over the last two years when they had a linebacker who could have played more. Cody played 374 snaps and 13 games in 2023. That’s 28.8 snaps per game. While Tommy played 60 snaps a game, 607 and 10 games and

Steel Chambers played 650 snaps in 13 games. So he played 50 snaps per game. So there was a decent gap. And if you remember Andrew, Jim Knowles was constantly talking about how he was wishing he could get Cody Simon on the field even more. Cause whenever he was out there, he was making plays this past year.

So Sonny Styles played the most snaps of any linebacker because Cody Simon missed a game. Obviously he played 897 snaps in 16 games. That’s 56 snaps per game. Cody Simon played 102 snaps in 15 games. That’s 53.5 snaps per game. Then linebacker three, Arville Reese played 309 snaps in 16 games.

So that’s 19.3 snaps. So he played less snaps per game as the third linebacker in 2024. Then Cody Simon played as the third linebacker per game in 2023. So I am wondering is our is Peyton somewhere in the middle of that? Is he 19 to 20 snaps per game? And James is not going to answer that question right now, obviously, but you can get a sense of how much he’s starting to trust Peyton Pierce in a way of

If he’s linebacker three, is it closer to our Val or is it closer to Cody Simon? In both situations, we had faith in the guy, but the other guys just got more opportunity per game that he did. Is that Andrew? don’t know if this is your question not as well, but is that the guy you’re circling when you’re talking about linebacker three? Are there anybody else who maybe can pop it?

Andrew (33:11.787)

No, I think it’s Peyton Pierce because James Lerner and I just said a couple of weeks ago when they had all the assistants out right before they went on spring break, somebody asked him, like, is it fair to say you have three and you’re looking for four? And he goes, yeah, I think that’s I think that’s a fair, think that’s a fair way to put it. So that’s Sonny Stiles and that’s Arville Reese and that’s Peyton Pierce. So I think Arville’s or excuse me, I think Peyton Pierce is pretty solidified in that third linebacker role.

That was the first question I had listed in case somebody stole it. obviously had more, but like, know, you, like you look at Peyton Pierce and it’s like, okay, like what are we talking about here? Like, is this, I think that’s probably the best, maybe most layman, you know, put it in layman’s terms. what, like what really are we talking about with Peyton Pierce? To me, he’s the third guy. And it’s like, I don’t know how much of a conversation there is at.

three right now because Riley Pettigon and TJ Alford like just showed up. Eli Lee just showed up like all these dudes are here for the first time and it’s like their first week of spring practice is wrapping up. So yeah, it’s Peyton Pierce is the three and I don’t know how much of a conversation we need to have about like, how much of a battle is there for the backup linebacker spot after those two and I think it’s pretty well locked in right

Stephen Means (34:34.228)

Garrett Stover erasure is disrespectful. I will not allow people to disrespect the Stover. Yeah, you can’t disrespect the Stover at Ohio State. Okay, so what’s your question?

Andrew (34:37.782)

that’s right, Garrett’s over is in that mix too. I did forget Garrett’s over.

Andrew (34:43.961)

So you guys ever been to a restaurant and they like ground Parmesan or pepper or whatever and they just say, say when? I just want to ask that about Arville Reese and just be like, hey James, say when? And you just kind of like, hey, here, starter. Okay, we’re all Big Ten second team. All Big Ten first team. All American second team. Like I just want to keep going up the list just to see. Now that’s not actually how I would phrase it, but.

Stephen Means (34:46.728)

Yes, I’ve been to a restaurant.

Stephen Means (34:51.565)

yeah.

Stephen Means (34:56.384)

You

Andrew (35:12.129)

I literally the only thing I wrote down was how good is our Valries? Like, what are we talking about? Because we talk about on this podcast are Valries path to greatness. You know, his this guy is going to be amazing. This guy’s awesome. Arvel’s incredible. But I want to hear James Lauren. just said I want to hear him say, man, this kid is really at a trajectory that we didn’t expect or.

wow, this guy, know, people need to be on the lookout for him. Like, I just want to know how good this kid is because we saw it in spurts last year where we were like, this kid’s pretty good. Jim Knowles said like path to destruction or whatever that was. It doesn’t take much imagination to kind of think about how good he could be. But it’s another thing to hear the linebackers coach put it in terms that people can understand.

And I want to know how good Arville Reese is. I want to know because Sonny Stiles is going to be one of the teams starting linebackers and the other one’s going to be Arville Reese. And I’m pretty damn confident that Sonny is going to be really, really, really good in 2025. And the linebacker room, think kind of hinges on Arville Reese because if he’s really, really good in 2025, then I mean, that that’s going to be one of the better linebacking tandems in the country.

Stephen Means (36:48.564)

I wanna see, and maybe James will answer this question, or maybe he will, I don’t know. How many people does he think he trusts right now with the helmet communication?

Cause that’s a pretty big deal. And it’s always been a big deal, but you realize how big of a deal it is when you’re watching that Oregon game on October 12th and you’re seeing guys knock your mind up and guys aren’t ready for the ball to be snapped. So that is how many guys are doing it right now? I would assume our veil is doing it cause he’s going to be in my blind backer. I am assuming that sunny styles has done it this spring and we’ll continue to do it because

If something goes wrong, he’s the guy you turn to. mean, that’s I mean, Cody Simon didn’t play and they gave it to Sonny Styles of our barista. That’s because Sonny Styles is a little bit older and you trusted him more at that point. Is Peyton Pierce doing it at all? Is is Riley Pettigon doing it? Is TJ Allford doing it at all? Is Eli Lee doing it at all? How many guys?

Are you expecting to be potential green dot guys for you in 2025? Even if one guy is ultimately going to get that job as a starter, how many guys do you trust with that? Because I just, again, it’s a minute detail, but it’s a detail that again, when you’re seeing guys not get lined up at the beginning of the Oregon game, when you’re seeing Texas kind of hit you with some stuff early on as well, you’d rather not have that problem, especially since you have so many young guys.

in that room who haven’t played a ton of snaps even as I said, Arvo Reese, he looks awesome, but he also hasn’t played a lot of football. So that’s my number one question for James. not as his last stuff, but Hey, how good is your room? Because there’s an argument to be made that this might be the deepest and best room on the defense. And I’m saying that understanding what’s in the cornerback room, but how many guys do you trust to essentially be the quarterback of your defense right now? Okay. And I’m gonna let you go first with tight end.

Andrew (39:00.751)

So, you for those that have listened to a little bit and look, I mean, obviously this podcast can be somebody’s first. So January 29th, 2025, Steven said, quote, if he goes over 30 and there’s no injuries, I will be shocked and it has nothing to do with him. And he will apologize to both myself and Max Clair on the podcast. And the reason he said that is not unfounded. Steven knows what he’s talking about. It’s you got great receivers in this room. So I want to ask Keenan Bailey.

When you have a player like Max Clair, what do you need to do to demand targets and demand a target share with the level of receivers that you’ve got? Because Ohio State right now has Jeremiah Smith. He is a first round pick. He might be the first overall pick. You have Brandon Innis. I don’t think anybody should be surprised if he’s a first round pick. You have Cornell Tate. I don’t think anybody would be surprised if he’s a first round pick. You have

Mylon Graham, I don’t think anybody would be surprised if he’s a first round pick. Quincy Porter, same thing. Like you can go to, Bryson Rogers, like you can go down the line and just kind of keep listing every receiver and say, well, that guy might be an NFL player and that guy might be an NFL player and that guy might be an NFL player. So, duh, the offense runs through the receivers. But I want to know when you coach a position like that and you coach a player like Max Clair that you go out and very clearly prioritize in the portal.

What do you need to do to prove that you should be just as big a part of an offense of the offense as those guys? And obviously the simple answer is, you know, that maybe some people are screaming at their devices right now or just be better than them. And yeah, that’s, that’s fair. But what makes Julian saying, look at Max Clair and say, he should be my second read. He should be my third read because the receivers in this offense, there’s

Stephen Means (40:57.888)

Well the play call makes him say that, that’s what.

Andrew (41:00.567)

I guess, but OK. So then then the question is, what makes Brian Heartline call plays that are designed for Max Clair? Like, what does he have to do to demand a target share in this offense that is somewhat significant? I’m not saying he’s going to get 65 catches this year, but what do you need to do to prove that you deserve those targets? That’s what I’m curious about, because that I mean, when we talk about Max Clair, it’s man, this guy’s so talented. This guy’s this. This guy’s that.

But he might only have like 27 catches and that shouldn’t and that wouldn’t or shouldn’t surprise anybody. you know, I’m just curious what what needs to happen in that regard is as you bring in a transfer like.

Stephen Means (41:45.546)

So I’m gonna go next.

because I gotta set it up first.

Stephen Means (41:53.888)

Stefan, how many players on this team, and I want you to name them right now in 2025, they’ve practiced three times and gone through winter workouts and they’re getting ready to do practice four as people are listening to this on my day. How many players right now would you say deserve to touch the ball?

at least 80 times next season.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:26.178)

Well, C.J. Donaldson James P. Bowles.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:33.848)

Jeremiah Smith, Cardinal Tate, Brandon Ennis.

I’d probably say right now, Mylon Graham and then Max Clair.

Stephen Means (42:46.826)

So you have seven people who deserve to touch the ball.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:51.598)

How many carries it? Do you have in front of you? How many carries James peoples had last year?

Stephen Means (42:51.804)

at least three times. I do, that’s why I’m just asking. I do, had that James Peebles had last year. He had 49.

Stefan Krajisnik (42:58.477)

Yeah.

Okay, so I won’t include a third running back.

Stephen Means (43:03.262)

Okay. So seven.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:05.934)

But it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a third running back as well.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:11.34)

because I don’t think, I don’t think CJ is going to have the workload of a quench on our trade. Like I think a third running back is going to have more reps this year. So I’ll say, say I’ll add, I’ll add Bo Jackson into that.

Stephen Means (43:11.392)

Do you think?

Stephen Means (43:18.922)

So do you...

Stephen Means (43:23.296)

Okay, because it’s not, yeah, what action? This right now is just about who deserves, who is good enough to where if they got it, if they touch the ball, so it doesn’t have to be a carry, it be a catch too. They touched the ball at least 80 times. You wouldn’t bat an eye at it. That’s your eight. Andrew, is that?

Stefan Krajisnik (43:39.507)

if, if that’s the case, I’ll add Quincy Porter to that too, as I wouldn’t bat an eye if he did.

Stephen Means (43:43.922)

Okay. Okay. So you got nine guys who absolutely deserve to touch. You would not be upset if you got to the end of next year. If we got into December and it’s like, this guy got the ball 80 times or whatever way they got it to him. Nine guys. Andrew is that list also your list or is there somebody you want to add? You want to take off? It’s fine. Just like name your guys from scratch.

Andrew (44:10.127)

I’m going to say three running backs. I’m going to include Bo in that. So people’s Donaldson, Bo, Jeremiah, Carnell, Innis, Claire.

Stephen Means (44:12.606)

Okay. Okay.

Stephen Means (44:18.026)

Okay. Okay.

Andrew (44:23.479)

I’ll throw Gram into that mix.

And I think I’m just gonna stick at eight. I’m not gonna put Porter on that list just right now.

Stephen Means (44:31.296)

Okay, there’s no, again, there’s no wrong answers. Right, this is essentially you’re saying, hey, which talented guys deserve to get the ball in the chair? How many guys do you think, not naming the quarterback, had at least 80 touches last year?

Andrew (44:33.613)

Yeah, there’s no writer. Yeah.

Andrew (44:49.187)

That would be Trey, Quin-Shawn, Jeremiah, Emeka, five? Hmm.

Stephen Means (44:57.801)

No.

Stefan Krajisnik (44:59.468)

before Cardinal’s not on there.

Stephen Means (45:02.888)

No, because he only had 52 catches. He didn’t have any rushes or anything.

Stefan Krajisnik (45:05.932)

Right. Mecca, Jeremiah, Quintchon and Travion.

Andrew (45:07.161)

that’s a yeah.

Stephen Means (45:10.56)

Yep, player, Quinshawn got it. Quinshawn got the ball 216 times between running and catching. Trevion got the ball 171 times between running and catching. And then Wilhauer 106 times he ran the ball. He also had the catch. What game was that when he caught his own ball?

Stephen Means (45:37.6)

Cause I think it was a playoff game, I’m not, I don’t remember off the top of my head. Mecca got it 89 times, he had 81 catches and eight runs. And Jeremiah had 82 times. had 76 catches and six runs. Then there’s a 30 touch drop off from them, the Cardinal tape.

Stefan Krajisnik (45:40.91)

I don’t remember.

Stephen Means (45:57.184)

I agree with both of you that you can get to, you might be able to get to 10 if you really wanted to stretch it of people where if you got to the end of the year, if they had 80 touches, you’re not bad. And I added, if I extended it to 50, Cardell makes the list and James people’s makes the list because he had 49 carries and a catch. Then it’s another drop off because G Scott only touched it 27 times.

Brandon only touched it 14 times. Essentially what I’m getting at here is you could go down the nine last year and say, oh, if this guy got the ball 50 times, you wouldn’t bat an eye at it. You could go down the list and go, if this guy had the ball 80 times, you wouldn’t bat an eye at it. And yet only four people had more than 80 touches.

And that’s my question to Max Clair in terms of why here, oh, I want it to be fine. You want it to be for national championships. You want to be a little, that’s all good and well, but there’s also the aspect of 51 catches for 685 yards and four touchdowns. Ohio State’s wide receiver three had that stat line last year and he did not get the ball 80 times. And I think

I agree with both of you. Max Clare is high on the list of people to where if he got it eight times next year, I wouldn’t bat an eye at it based off his talent level. But I am wondering why a tight end who got the ball as much as he did last year and a lot of that’s because he was literally it was either Max Clare or nothing. Why he chose to come to a place where there’s a good chance he might get it less. But then on top of that, how’s it going?

because there’s a, I don’t know if you guys saw it, but there was a play when they were doing the routes on air where Julian threw it to Max Clair and Max was nowhere near ready for it. And it wasn’t Julian’s fault. He made the right decision. It’s just, I don’t think Max Clair’s ever played in an offense where he had a quarterback who could get the ball on as fast as Julian Sand did.

Stephen Means (48:06.004)

So he’s not used to working at that level of speed. So, hey, Max, how’s it going playing in a higher level offense, playing with higher level players where you do have to do things maybe 10 % faster than you did last year because you’re not playing with Hudson Card. You’re playing with a guy who might be a first round draft pick in two years. So it’s a double edged sword of why here?

And how’s it going with Max Clair? Because that might decide whether or not I start getting worried about that statement I made back in January.

Andrew (48:34.051)

You can.

Andrew (48:40.495)

Well, because like you said, like. There’s more than just Ohio State, I know I say just won the national championship, but more programs than Ohio State have national championship aspirations, That’s what I’m going to say. was like, why not? Why not Penn State? I don’t know who Penn State’s backup tight end is, but they just lost Tyler Warren and he saw how featured he was. Penn State compete for national championship. Like why not Georgia like Gunnar Helm just left from Texas like like why not go there?

Stephen Means (48:49.374)

Why not Georgia? You just watched what they did with Brock Bowers!

Stephen Means (48:59.648)

Yeah!

No.

Andrew (49:09.935)

Notre Dame just played in a national championship. They just lost their tight end. Mitchell Evans, why not go there? Like there’s options that I think you could look at and say, okay, Ohio State just won the national championship. And if you say, this is the best team in college football, I wanna play for the best team in college football, then that’s great. And that’s totally fine and good for you. But you do know that it might be difficult to get some catches. So how did you weigh that? That’s a good question. How did you weigh, maybe that’s a better question for Max, not Keenie Bailey, but like.

what made him such a priority.

Stephen Means (49:41.79)

Now, granted, he’s from Cincinnati. So there’s a pool to come home that doesn’t exist for a guy who just spent the last three years of his life living in Indiana. He went to St. Acts. So there’s the pool, Ohio State’s the best team in college football right now. And it just so happens to be your home. So that part of it, you can’t rule that out.

But also you’re the best tight end in the transfer portal and you might be the best returning tight end in America. And there are plenty of offenses for teams who have national championship aspirations in 2025 who could use you and will use you significantly more than they’re going to use you at Ohio state. So why are you at Ohio state? And also how is that transition going? Steph on the floor, George, what’s your tight end question?

Stefan Krajisnik (50:39.534)

I have a question about whether we talk about Will Kazmeric fairly enough. Cause I think he has a pretty big role on this roster. I think he’s a guy who’s pretty familiar now with Ohio State compared to a guy like Max Clair. And I think the way we remember his 2024 season is tainted a bit by injury and kind of what he was able to do. And right before he got hurt, he had one of the bigger plays of the season.

Stephen Means (50:45.887)

Hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (51:08.706)

The catch down the field against Oregon that you know, maybe it was an interception. Maybe it was a catch. Whatever we could go back and forth on that. But is he maybe a sleeper threat down the field in this offense? Could there be a third and five in a game against Penn State where there’s Will Casmeric down the middle of the field catching 20 yard pass like it is he more of a threat than than when we make him out to be? Because I think we talk about him a lot. We talk about.

Blocking, know all the all the I guess things that that tight ends do that don’t show up on a box score Could he have a big catch this year because he had one last year and if he had been healthy would he have had a few more so maybe maybe he’s a guy we’re not giving enough credit to to what he can do on the box score and maybe he comes up big in a game this season, so I think Max Claire’s intriguing, but I think when Max Claire’s on the field, maybe defenses are more aware

But when Wilcas Merrick comes on the field and teams are thinking, okay, second and three, here comes a run, Wilcas Merrick’s on the field. Boom, there he is across the middle of the field, 20, 25 yard catch, you know, into the end zone or something like that. So maybe we don’t give him enough credit because injuries kind of, you know, diminished how we thought talked about his 2024 season. Maybe he’s got a bigger role on this team than we think.

Stephen Means (52:30.794)

I have another question and it has nothing to do with these things. It’s more of a day question than it is anything else. But I want to use it here because I want to use Max Clair as the example. I agree with you with the Wilcas Marek point and you bringing up Wilcas Marek and Andrew, you bringing up Max Clair is why I just popped into my head. Both of these kids are from Ohio and did not sign with Ohio State High School. Max Clair was the number

Stephen Means (53:07.087)

1194 player and the number 69 tight end in the 2022 recruiting class, a class for Ohio state because I covered, I know this Ohio state wanted two tight ends in that class. They got the, uh, uh, Bennett Christian out of Georgia. was in rated in the four hundreds and they had another kid named Benji Gosnell who was committed and those are their two tight ends. Benji flipped to Virginia tech later on that year. Will Casmeric.

in the 2021 class was the number

Stephen Means (53:45.694)

Wasn’t ranked at all. 247 had him ranked, but the compilers didn’t have him ranked. And 247 had him rated as a defensive lineman, which is hilarious. He ended up at OU, Ohio.

I’m wondering with both of these guys...

Stephen Means (54:02.644)

how different things would be if they hadn’t gone through high school when we were stuck in the house with COVID. Cause you gotta remember. I remember again, Bennett Christian, they never, he took like a self guided visit. That was what they were calling it back then. Cause kids, couldn’t have visitors on campus. So he just, him and his parents just drove up to Ohio and came and saw Ohio State for themselves. And then he committed like 48 hours after they saw the campus. That’s how they were doing things. That’s why Jack Sawyer.

invited all those guys from the 21 class into his house because they couldn’t do visits. And so, hey, everybody just come to my house and we’ll just come walk around high street and walk around the campus and see all the things you need to see. So you’re not coming in here blind in six months as an early enrollee. I wonder what their recruitment would have been like. If the world had been normal and that Wilcas Merrick had a chance to camp and add Max Clair had a chance.

the summer of 2021 as a Saint Ex kid where Ohio State’s taken Saint Ex kids in the past before. If he had a camped in the summer of 2021, would he have had to go to Purdue? Cause I’m looking at his offer list. It’s not special. Purdue is the big 10 school. He’s got Duke who he took an official visit to. He’s got Air Force, Ball State, Bowling Green, and a few other places, but it’s not like some grand doji. This is not Caleb Downs transferring where it’s Ohio State.

finished second the first time around, something happened that sent Caleb Downs into the portal and now he’s coming to you. This is, no, this kid was a lowly rated, underrated recruit who went somewhere else, turned into a monster, and is now in the transfer portal. And because he’s from Ohio, maybe Ohio State had the upper hand. And maybe they didn’t recruit him as well out of high school. And I’m wondering, and maybe this is a question for Ryan Day and it’s maybe more of a question for.

Mark Pantoni, but how much did COVID ruin things? How much did it lead to maybe around the country, some mis-evaluations of guys? One, some guys who were five stars who maybe didn’t turn out to be so much. Cause go look at the top 10 of that 2021 recruiting class. There’s some studs for sure. There’s a Mecca book as a stud, but Marvin Harrison Jr. being ranked in the nineties. I don’t know, man. Like that’s.

Stefan Krajisnik (56:17.346)

You see it, and it wore on some classes even afterward. Like, Quinn Sean was kind of the poster child of dude that probably would have been a four five star if it hadn’t been COVID. Like, he ends up at Ole Miss, and even then people were like, not really talking much about it.

Stephen Means (56:21.92)

Right.

Stephen Means (56:27.497)

because

Stephen Means (56:32.576)

And I just wonder with both of these guys, if that’s a, if they’re a product of COVID evaluations, where it was a lot more high school film and not being able to see these kids in person, because that’s why the visits are important. Yes, the kids get to see the campus, but every visit matters because from a school’s perspective, because you get to see the physical development of a guy. If you started recruiting a tight end, mean, Will Casmeric, 66260 now. If you started recruiting Casmeric and he was

6′1″, 185 as a true freshman, and then he’s 6′3″, 200 as a sophomore, but then because of COVID, you don’t get to see him. What if he had come on campus after his junior year and he’s 6′4″, 248? You think Ohio State would have offered him? You think if Max Clair, who’s what, like 6′4″, 6′5″, 240 now? If he showed up on the campus his junior year at 6′5″, 225?

You think Ohio State would have offered him out of high school? Maybe, maybe not, who knows? But they wanted two tight ends in that class. And there was a kid who lived 90 minutes from your campus who wasn’t one of the guys you were considering. And that’s a recruiting question more than it is. I know I just went on a tangent, I apologize for that. But that’s more of a recruiting question than anything. But it does seem like Ohio State’s two, their top two tight ends are two guys who, is there a world where they’re not transfers?

and they’re just Buckeyes from the get-go, had COVID not maybe ruined your chances to see more people, especially Max Clair because he’s an Ohio kid who went to Purdue and turned into a pretty good football player. That’s all I’m thinking about is how different are things for Max Clair if he doesn’t have to go to Purdue because COVID doesn’t ruin his last couple of years of high school.

Stephen Means (58:22.1)

I think I’ll ask Ryan Day that on today. Yeah, I think that’s what I’m asking. I was gonna ask something else, but I’ll ask that and say, okay, let’s take a final break. And then Andrew can come back around and have his questions for the coordinators here on Buckeye Talk.

We’re back here on Buck I Talk. Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisnick and Andrew Gillis. Andrew, I’ll let you go first. Do you have questions for Ryan Day and Brian Hart? We know what your question is from Matt Patricia. You gave it away in the first segment, but do you have questions for the other two people we’ll be talking to today as people are listening to this podcast?

Andrew (58:53.923)

Yeah, well, I’m curious with Brian Hartline, like, this is the first time he’s a play caller. So what are you doing to challenge yourself in Spring Camp about calling plays? How do you put yourself in different situations? What are you doing to simulate game environments? Because this is one thing if, you know, Ohio State opens the season with Youngstown State. If Ohio State opens the season with

Stephen Means (59:22.398)

Yeah.

Andrew (59:23.631)

Ohio or Grambling or, you know, Akron, right? Like, I think there were 50 point favorites in week one of last year. We just said on the other pod that this might be Ohio State versus Texas, one verse two. So. You want to talk about getting you want to do you want to talk about getting thrown into the fire like this is this is it now again, this game, obviously.

Stephen Means (59:42.236)

It’s going to be a moon.

Andrew (59:53.983)

Stephen has kind of brought up of like, you know, how this impacts Ohio State’s season if you win it, how this impacts why is that scene if you lose it? And that’s a whole other conversation. But it is a really good, I think, benchmark for where Brian Heartline is at, because I said this when he got promoted. There are things I guarantee you that you might say this is going to be great and this is going to work out and he’s going to be.

the best offensive coordinator in college football for as long as he wants to be. And you can have a lot of opinions that are really high on Brian Hartline, but I guarantee you there are things that Ryan Day knows and there are things that Chip Kelly knows and there are things that Kevin Wilson knows and all these other coordinators that have been above Hartline that you don’t really pick up until you’re in the game flow. How do you not get in your own head? How do you not do this? How do you do this? Like I’m curious what he’s doing in practices.

especially as they’re splitting guys up in the early part of camp where you got, you know, Mylon Graham working with the ones with Cornell Tate on the other field or, know, you’ve got backup offensive lineman working with Julian saying like, like, what are you doing to prepare yourself with that? And I guess in the same vein with day, it’s like, okay, how are you helping him? What are you telling him about calling plays and what advice are you giving him about calling plays to let him be himself?

and let him be his own play caller and his own man and his own coach? And how do you throw your own advice in there? How do you throw your own guidance in there? That’s what I’m curious about.

Stephen Means (01:01:30.432)

You know my problem with Brian Hartliners It’s not a real problem. It’s it’s a journalism program. That is a valid question

I don’t know if it’s going to get the answer you want. No, no, it’s not that. It’s not that. It’s not that he coach speak speaks you as he goes. Stop stressing yourself out about this man. Seriously, it’s what he’s going to do. There are all valid questions and he’s just going to be like. Dude. Chill. It’s OK. We’ll figure it out.

Andrew (01:01:45.731)

No shot, no shot is that getting, you know, it’s, you know, you work, you do what you can and you you try to simulate blah blah blah.

Andrew (01:02:02.155)

I that in my life in more ways than one.

Stephen Means (01:02:13.344)

He’s gonna be like, it’s spring. And you know, I know, but these are, it’s spring. We have six months to figure all that out. You think I have that figured out after four practices? No, but I’m just trying to see how your mind works. Spring.

chill. That’s what he’s gonna do to you. Because he’s done it to me. That’s how know he’s gonna do it to you. It’s what he does. Valid questions. I think you should ask him that. And when he tells you to chill, what you should do is hold on to that question. And then when all gets rolled around, you should ask the exact same question and go it’s not spring anymore, Brian, you have to answer it.

Andrew (01:02:48.719)

Exactly. But yeah, you can’t say like, like, I can’t be like, Brian, you know, how are you challenging yourself with with play calling and what are you putting yourself through to kind of simulate game environments in spring practice? I can’t ask it the same way on March 20, whatever, as opposed to August. I have to say, you said back on March blank that chill it just spring. Now it’s August 17th. What like what has changed? Texas is coming in two weeks.

Stephen Means (01:03:05.854)

No, no, I think you should. I think you should ask it the same way. Yes.

Stephen Means (01:03:14.58)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. That’s what you should do. Yeah, you should do exactly that. What’s your question, Stefan?

Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:23.596)

I want to know how much Heartline worked with the quarterbacks last year, because, you know, we’ve talked about, or we’ve heard about how involved he was in the offense, especially in the playoff. How much did he kind of get to know these quarterbacks? How much was he able to spend time around them? And how much did he learn from, or has he learned from Ryan Day about developing quarterbacks and working with quarterbacks? Because, you know, Heartline was very adamant a couple of weeks ago about, you know, his involvement with the wide receivers and his role was going to stay the same.

Stephen Means (01:03:28.028)

Mmm.

Stephen Means (01:03:38.016)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:53.92)

as wide receivers coach, but he’s got to have a bigger role with the quarterbacks. He’s got to have a good relationship with Julian saying like, how many times did it feel like last year where Chip Kelly made a play call and Will Howard already knew what it was going to be, you know, once that one step ahead, because the relationship that those two guys had and Ryan day in that mix as well. Well, what is how close was hardline able to get with a guy like Julian saying last year and how much are they developing their relationship this year? That’s where I want to know is like, this is another step as

as being an offensive coordinator is having that relationship with your quarterbacks. What makes Ryan Day as good of an offensive play caller as he was? He knew his quarterbacks as well as anyone. He was a monster and still is a monster at recruiting quarterbacks, developing quarterbacks, his relationship with quarterbacks. Ryan R-Line’s done that with wide receivers, no questions asked. What’s it like with Julian Sand? What’s it like with Lincoln Keenels? What role is he playing now in the development of Julian Sand?

That might be what dictates how good this team is in 2025.

Stephen Means (01:04:59.668)

Does that matter? And no, I’m not asking you. I’m asking him. Cause to the point I just said about Andrew, is he gonna do the it’s spring chill? So trying to find ways to ask that where he can’t do the it’s spring chill thing. And I think that’s what it is, is how much does your dynamic and relationships with the, how much have you been working with them? And also how much of that chemistry matters right now?

Cause to your point about, Will Howard got to the point where he was finishing the play called like Chip Kelly would start doing. Did that matter that he was doing, if he was doing it in the spring or not, when did that start happening? Did it start happening in the middle of summer? Did it happen three weeks in the fall camp? Did it happen in the middle of the season? And how much does that matter right now when you guys are emphasizing that the spring is more about individual development than everything else and that individual development also

extends to your first time play.

So again, valid questions. And how much are you guys taking that into account when you’re doing some of this stuff of how much you want Brian to be with the quarterbacks this period versus spending this period with the wide receivers? How much do you want him to just be keeping an eye on what the offensive line is door or how much of it right now is just simply when they’re in teach periods, Brian heartlines with the wide receivers. When they’re doing individual drills, Brian heartlines with the wide receivers. And then during team drills,

He throws on the headset. Now he’s in offensive coordinator mode. Like is it, are they flipping a switch with it right now? That’s the process of their practice right now is far more interesting to me now than the quarterback battle itself is just because they keep telling us to stop worrying about the quarterback battle right now. So fine, we’ll stop worrying about it. But I almost want to just watch Brian Hartline for a whole practice and see what he’s doing and where he’s going and essentially have a GPS tracker on the dude and for an entire practice. And I might do that for the entire.

Stephen Means (01:07:04.224)

student appreciation day practice. I don’t know what I’m doing for that practice yet. I got a week and a half to figure that out. My goes back into what I was talking about with the tight ends. They have a lot of players who deserve to have the ball. This is also not the first time they’ve had a lot of players who deserve to have the ball. But this is, think the deepest that list has gone since 21. I think maybe last year, maybe. But the arm challenge of the quarterback is closer to 2021 than it is 2020.

for and no matter how many years in a row they’ve had this, they’ve not screwed it up yet. 2015 they screwed it up after and then the reason why I’m bringing it up is the last time they won a national championship and they had all these players come back on offense who all deserve the ball. They screwed it up. They did. They had too many players who needed the ball and they were trying to get the ball to too many guys instead of just running their offense and letting things figure themselves out themselves.

and it got in the way of things and it eventually cost them a game against Michigan State. How do you keep that from happening again? How do you keep this from turning into, it’s the second quarter and Max Clair hasn’t had a target yet or JJ hasn’t had a target and seven straight plays or Carnell has been blocking and not had a target. we got to get James Peeples the ball because he hasn’t ran it yet. we got to CJ Donaldson the ball because he hasn’t having a touch us today.

How do you not get into the game of where your accountant touches the way it seemed like they were doing in 2015 when they had all that talent? Because that is what Brian Hartline is juggling more than anything else. And I do wonder if that’s where Ryan Day comes into the account now. And maybe he spent last year practicing that because he’s not calling plays and he’s not heading the ground. know, okay, it’s second and third, this is what we’re doing. Ryan Day can be more about the vibes.

so he can get a better feel of things. And he was probably calling up the chip. Hey, we haven’t hit JJ in a while. Hey, we haven’t hit trade me on in a while. Hey, we should probably do this with G scouting on this play, right? That’s, that’s where Ryan base input comes in. It’s not necessarily the game plan or the X’s and O’s part of it. It’s more just pushing the suggestion box the way that you see head coaches often do. And I’m wondering how that dynamic

Stephen Means (01:09:24.18)

might start to form itself with Brian Hartline and Ryan Day. Did you ask your Patricia question? Andrew, is it just the defensive line stuff?

Andrew (01:09:33.805)

Yeah, it was kind of tied in because remember you said, what are your questions for Larry Johnson and Matt Patricia? And then you got mad at me for asking if that was two questions. I was.

Stephen Means (01:09:41.908)

That’s not why, no, no, no, you didn’t ask is that two questions? You said it was two questions and Stefan and I went, this is day three. Okay.

Andrew (01:09:46.927)

Well, you gave me the prompt question. Yeah, it was it was about defensive tackle because like because remember what I said, Vince Wilfork, basically, it was like Larry, it’s like, is your nose tackle depth good enough? But then it’s kind of like the same for Matt. It’s like, OK, do you have confidence in the nose tackle depth enough to have a player like CJ Hicks, like a 335 type of defense? Like because you’re not running a 335 if you don’t have confidence in like Caden McDonald or something. Right. So

Stephen Means (01:09:54.118)

yeah.

Stephen Means (01:10:15.586)

I don’t know if they’re on

Andrew (01:10:17.039)

That was kind of what I was curious about.

Stephen Means (01:10:19.424)

Stefan, you got anything else? Before we get out of here.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:10:23.662)

I got all my questions out.

Stephen Means (01:10:26.592)

You made the reads, threw the ball.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:10:29.646)

I did what I was asked to do.

Andrew (01:10:34.383)

stayed within the scheme of the offense.

Stephen Means (01:10:36.136)

Mmm. Keep the, you kept me.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:10:39.086)

Do you trust Andrew with the green sticker?

Stephen Means (01:10:42.239)

Ah, listen man, Ryan Day always says, make the routine plays routinely. You know, just do the simple, just keep it simple, stupid and good things happen. I don’t know, man. I think, I mean, listen, we’re only.

Andrew (01:10:55.137)

Attitude reflect leadership, Captain.

Stephen Means (01:10:57.536)

You got to listen, man. Yeah, execute, man. Yeah, execute. It’s a great man. I’m in a group chat. We’ve been throwing that the guy who’s like the commissioner of our fantasy league. We’ve been throwing that in this face for the last couple of weeks here. person who lost won’t do the punishment. But the reason they won’t do the punishment is because the standard was set by our commissioner to not do punishments.

Andrew (01:11:01.1)

That’s a great movie reference, by the way, if anybody picked up on that.

Andrew (01:11:19.085)

Wait, what is the punishment though? Or can you say it on a-

Stephen Means (01:11:21.588)

So the Arch, the commissioner of our league, he, he used to football at Ohio State. He was a walk home. and so when he, two years ago, when he lost, when he came in last place, his punishment was he had to walk around Ohio State’s campus during a game day wearing a Michigan Jersey.

Andrew (01:11:28.29)

Okay.

Andrew (01:11:45.015)

Ooh, okay. Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:11:46.12)

It’s tough, but simple, right? Real tough, but real simple. He never did the punishment. So it has now set a standard of, you actually don’t have to do the punishment and there will be no consequences for not doing the punishment. The problem is the punishments have gotten harsher since then. The punishment the last two years is to eat one of those like really hot chips. Right. So again, eat the hot chip or wear a jersey. And I understand we’re doing a podcast.

Andrew (01:12:04.046)

I see.

Andrew (01:12:09.102)

Ugh. Ugh.

Stephen Means (01:12:15.796)

to whole bunch of Ohio State football fans and we’re just telling you to, hey, a former walk-on, we’re telling them he has to wear a jersey during an Ohio State football game of a Michigan person. I’m not saying it’s easy, but eating the chip is objectively harder than wearing a jersey for two and a half hours.

Andrew (01:12:32.163)

Well, I was gonna say 614-350-3315. Let us know if you would rather wear a Michigan jersey around Ohio Stadium as you dear Ohio State fan, or would you rather eat the hottest chip on the planet that will probably wreck havoc on you for 24 hours? Can you deal with this shame of wearing a Michigan jersey? Or would you just say, you know what, I might get killed if I wear this Michigan jersey. I need to eat the chip, but then the chip might kill you anyway. So I don’t know.

Stephen Means (01:12:38.516)

Wee!

Stephen Means (01:12:43.424)

Yeah!

Stephen Means (01:12:47.016)

Yeah, that actually might work.

Stephen Means (01:12:57.649)

You might die in it either way. might die inside our-

Stefan Krajisnik (01:12:58.53)

Would you rather explain to someone sitting in your section that you lost fantasy football or would you rather explain it to a doctor?

Andrew (01:13:07.279)

Would you rather explode physically or emotionally? That’s the question.

Stephen Means (01:13:08.04)

Essentially, yes, that’s what you’re being asked. Yeah, so that’s what we’re dealing with in our fantasy group chat right now. But because of that, no one’s eating the chip because he didn’t do that. So the standard was set that you don’t have to do the punishments. So as the punishments get more difficult, it makes it even more hilarious that no one’s done the punishments because the commissioner of the league won’t do his punishment from two or three years ago. It’s quite hilarious.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:13:37.39)

Standard is a standard and the standard is not great right now in the fantasy football league.

Stephen Means (01:13:38.816)

standards are standard. It’s not it’s not great right now. And so now people are like, I don’t care, man. Let’s just play. Let’s just play. Let’s have fun. It’s like, no, no. What am I buying in for for just having fun? I’m here to win. But it’s fine. It is what it is. Yeah. So I actually send that. Yeah. What’s what’s his worst? The Michigan Jersey or the chip? Yeah. 614-350-3315 two week free trial. 399 after that. That wraps up this pod.

Andrew (01:13:57.348)

That’s a great question to know where people’s minds are at.

Stephen Means (01:14:06.944)

We’re back in the building talking with Dave, Matt, Patricia and Brian Hartline. We’ll talk with defensive line tomorrow and then we’ll get obviously pro day stuff. So we’ll Howard, Jack Sawyer, Chave on Henderson, a Mecca, Buka, Donovan Jackson, Latham, ransom, JT Tremolo, our Tylek Williams, Quince, Sean Judkins on down the list. We’ll be back in the building. think Josh Simmons will be back in the building for what might be the first time since the week of the Oregon game. And for being real about this. it’s just, there’ll be plenty of information coming out throughout the week. So get the text six one four three five.

33152 week free trial 399 after that for Stefan Christen, Kenan Drogelis, I’m Stephen Means and that was Fuck I Talk.

Stephen Means (01:14:47.904)

Jesus Christ, Stop! Stop!

It literally won’t stop.

It’s not even giving me the option to stop.

Andrew (01:14:59.761)

no.

Stephen Means (01:15:02.528)

That’s not good. Well, we’re done.

Andrew (01:15:27.503)

How’s going, Stevan? Yeah, I don’t know.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:15:28.63)

I would label this as not good.

Whatever is going on.

Stephen Means (01:15:36.843)

stop.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:15:38.092)

Hope he’s back.